The Eric Eichler ’57 Fellowship for Health Care Leaders is a one-year fellowship that includes one-on-one mentorship with senior faculty and researchers at The Dartmouth Institute to guide your exploration of research, policy or health outcomes improvement work.
#FellowsFriday individually features each of the ten Eichler Fellows and the projects they are working on with their mentors.
My name is Jessica Kobsa, and I am a ’20 from Wilton, Connecticut. I am a Psychology major and Biology minor. I am also a Senior Fellow conducting research on an intervention to reduce problematic eating behaviors in adolescents. I tend to be drawn to issues that I feel are too often overlooked, such as care for the elderly, end-of-life decisions, women’s health, and the intersection of mental health with physical health. I feel very passionately that I want to be a clinician applying the knowledge and tools of medicine to positively impact people’s lives.
Clinically, I am especially interested in difficult yet hugely important conversations involving decisions about end-of-life care and palliative care. As a psychology major, I am also interested in how the mind affects our physical health and vice versa. I would argue that principles of psychology can be used to improve just about every human experience there is, including the experience of being a patient and the experience of being a doctor in today’s burnout-breeding environment. My goals pertaining to healthcare are to first understand the needs and perspectives of as many stakeholders as I can and then to use that knowledge to help make structural changes in today’s healthcare system that improve people’s experiences.
I am working with Dr. Robert Santulli, geriatric psychiatrist, on the Dartmouth Dementia Directive Video Project. In this project, we promote the Dartmouth Dementia Directive, an advance directive that allows people to describe their wishes for their medical care specifically at three different stages of dementia. Additionally, we provide interested individuals an opportunity to video record their directive, as evidence suggests that video advance directives are more likely to be followed and are valuable to family members and physicians involved in an individual’s care.
Foundations instilled in me incredible passion to make a difference and ignited my curiosity to learn as much as I can about the needs of the players in today’s healthcare system. I believe that with the right mindset, the willingness to compromise, creativity, and resilience, we can solve some of these problems. I am incredibly grateful for the opportunity to be an Eichler Fellow, and I look forward immensely to this step in my journey.
November Seminar with Dr. Rick W.A. Smith, MA, MS, PhD
This talk titled “Imprecision Medicine: Health without History” given by Dr. Rick W.A. Smith of the Dartmouth Anthropology department targeted the intersection of Anthropology and genomic advancements. The Eichler fellows were joined by their classmates and colleagues as Dr. Smith shared his insights on his research interspersed with the information he would’ve wanted to hear as a pre-medical student.
We are all familiar with the recent boom in genetic tests commercialized to uncover our family lineage and ancestry; these consumerized genetic test kits are what Dr. Smith refers to as “the unfulfilled promise of precision medicine”. Following the advancements in genetic medicine, we were promised a revolution in health, but what we got were take-home ancestry kits. In this talk, we were encouraged to think about all the greater possibilities and untapped potential in genetic testing.
Dr. Smith’s research focuses on the ways that social and political power structures shape human biology in both ancient and contemporary societies. Not only does colonialism leave marks on the physical locations of civilization, but also on the bodies of the native civilians. Violence and trauma can be traced through genetic and epigenetic data. However, it has been only scientists deciding that “pure” blood qualifies a person as indigenous; genetic scientists have been studying indigenous populations without acknowledging the social experiences, trauma, and sexual violence that these populations have experienced. This manner of genetic data collection erases the history of white violence on indigenous bodies that indigenous women have faced.
How are scientists, removed from a historical and cultural context of what they are studying, the ones making decisions regarding indigenous people? Not only has this resulted in the erasure of alterations in genetic variation of indigenous people following colonialism, but also raises an ethical problem of how scientific literature determines both who is getting studied and what the implications mean without a full understanding of the social context.
This seminar topic and the work of Dr. Smith are a robust examples of interdisciplinary study. Dr. Smith’s multidisciplinary approach to his work is one that the Dartmouth Health Care Foundations program hopes to continue inspiring in pre-medical students. We must not only examine the most pressing issues in medicine as a biomedical problem – but additionally, how to approach these issues from a sociological/anthropological, psychological, social perspective. In doing so, we – as future medical leaders – will be able to better represent the people and phenomena we are studying.
For more information on the Dartmouth Health Care Foundations program, visit the site here.
I first met Katie when she came to the Dartmouth Health Care Foundations week in July 2018. Her warmth and compassion, combined with a desire to make a positive impact in the world, made her an excellent candidate for The Eric Eichler ’57 Fellowship for Health Care Leaders, a year long-fellowship for future leaders in healthcare. She recently wrote to me, and the influence of Foundations and the Fellowship are alive and well in her as can be seen by her thriving as a novice outside of school, taking on new challenges without fear, and taking time to be thoughtful about her next steps to ensure she arrives at her destination with her whole self intact. Here is what Katie wrote:
The transition from college to “adulting” can be a very sudden transition. For me, I don’t know if the classes I’ve taken or the seminars I’ve attended necessarily prepared me for the real world, like managing finances/investments or cooking nutritious meals (the college dining hall is a blessing!). To be honest, it was a daunting thought during senior spring to imagine how I could navigate these unfamiliarities, but at least the tuition paid at Dartmouth didn’t go to waste! Day by day, I’ve been realizing that college has taught me skills that I’m finding very helpful: how to utilize my curiosity and hunger to learn, the concept of passion over perfection (of course you want to achieve both!), resiliency, and much more.
I’m still figuring out my
life, and I’ve learned to be okay with that. I’d prefer to take the
non-traditional path that satisfies/fulfills my soul than to feel pressured by
a more traditional route that inhibits my creativity and joy. I’m not saying
that one is generally better than the other, but I’m trying to make sure that I
dictate the direction of my life rather than be strung along by societal or
My current post-graduate life
first involves studying for the MCAT. I do dream of becoming a
doctor, but I hope to spend this gap year to wrestle this dream – addressing
the big WHY question. In the meantime, I wanted to lead an active life, so I
decided to start studying for the MCAT ahead of time. This way, I can
re-establish my science foundations over the summer and have the time to
process some personal things after the whirlwind of college. Thankfully,
studying the MCAT has been pretty manageable, and yes… sometimes I do wonder
why certain topics are appealing now! I do wish I pushed myself to focus on my
pre-med classes, but at the end of the day, I can’t change history and I have
to move on!
With summer at hand, I decided to challenge myself to learn something new. My personality is one where I develop passions/interests quickly, but often find myself lacking the discipline to follow some things through. And so, I find myself in retirement mode – learning how to play golf, and wow! I forgot how difficult learning something new can be! All the patience and perseverance… Through this journey, I’ve learned how I enjoy doing things I’m best at because confidence was a major motivation. I’m also learning to push my limits and keep working hard at something that can be discouraging and makes me feel like a total novice.
Speaking of patience, LA traffic is a nightmare. To drive ~20 miles, it takes about an hour. In Hanover, that would’ve been a different story! This drive takes place a couple times a week because I’ve been shadowing at a teaching hospital focused on reaching the medically underserved community. So far, the experience has been incredible. I’ve been in the NICU, Pediatric Hematology/Oncology, and Pediatric Cardiology units. Surprisingly, all the doctors (attending, fellows, residents, MS students, nurses, technicians, etc.) have been willing to take the time to teach and advise/counsel me. One attending has even gone the extra mile to provide career counseling for 2 hours!! This experience has made me more motivated to become a doctor, even if my statistics make it seem impossible. Life is short, so I think I’ll give it a shot.
In the midst of all these
moving parts, I’m in the process of exploring and establishing my identity.
My self-concept and self-identity has gone on an intense roller-coaster ride,
and I’m looking for some grounding. It is a lifelong journey, but I think it’s
time that I spend time to reflect and know myself. What are my values, dreams,
passions, and experiences? How did I become the person I am today? Questions
like these help me learn more about myself.
Community has always been an
important component of my life. While I do have family immediately by my side
now, I would be lying if I didn’t say I was struggling to find community.
Building relationships and friendships take time, and thankfully I have been
fortunate to have been actively “pursued” by the young adults ministry at
church. It was nice to see that there were people out there who genuinely
wanted to get to know me and would try to include me into their circles. We are
an eclectic group from all backgrounds and stages of life, and for an extrovert
like me, it energizes and makes my week even brighter.
What are the next steps of my career? As of October, I will have job as an EMT at a 9-1-1 ambulance company. I’m super excited to be able to start working and training at this company. During the interview process, they made it clear that they value their employees and really invest all their resources and time. This can be seen in how their employees respect the company and how the public perceives this emergency organization. Once I start working, I will share more details, but for now, this is all I have.
Just Mercy: A Story of Justice
and Redemption by Bryan Stevenson
When the Air Hits Your Brain:
Tales from Neurosurgery by Frank Vertosick Jr., MD
Richard Kogan MD on Music
and Medicine: Chopin and the Power of Resilience
would highly recommend listening/reading one of his works! I was first
introduced to him during research for my thesis, but now I will get the
opportunity to meet him in person when he gives his talk this Thursday!
Dr. Dhabhar came to us from the Department of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences, and the Sylvester Comprehensive Cancer Center, at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine. He was the first to discover mechanisms by which short-term stress physiology enhances the body’s immune defenses to increase protection during a fight-or-flight response.
He is interested in developing practical and sustainable interventions to minimize the effects of “bad” stress and maximize the effects of “good” stress. His interests extend from stress-related molecular and cellular mechanisms to their holistic physiological function in individuals, to practical and sustainable implications for public policy and societal well-being.
This month’s seminar had the best turnout yet! Dr. Dhabhar drew a crowd of professors, collages, and students from so many areas here on Dartmouth’s Geisel School of Medicine campus. His intriguing topic generated a swirl of questions and comments from the audience, and conversations continued long after the seminar came to a close.
These are things that struck me (as an utter layman
to the topic and associated terms—except for the word ‘stress’…that one I get!)
as I listened to Dr. Dhabhar:
Quoting Hippocrates, Dr. Dhabhar said, “It’s far more important to know the person who has the disease than it is to know the disease.” His work is showing people how to maximize mind-body health through hard science psycho-neuro immunology shows us how stress impacts the nervous system, endocrine system, immune system, and overall health, and feeds back to brain creating a loop.
He asked us to consider two things:
1) while “stress is a
loaded gun”, has some truth to it, it’s not always.
2) mother nature gave us the stress response
to help us survive, not die.
Sometimes we even get stressed on purpose: we
go to Halloween haunted houses to get stressed—to get a thrill.
The definition of stress is a constellation
of events that begins with a stimulus that precipitates a reaction in the brain
that subsequently results in the activation of fight/flight systems in the body. Without the biological stress response, it
doesn’t matter; there is no stress.
Short-term stress can last minutes to hours.
Chronic stress is weeks to months to years.
Stress affects the heart rate, adrenaline, noradrenaline,
cortisol, cytokines—All increase. Some common everyday activities such as exercise
and kissing (intimate) also activate this response.
Most research is focused on long-term chronic stress. It is important to investigate and HARNESS the protective effects of short-term stress which affects psychological states, heart rate, blood pressure, hormones, immune cells and factors, functional and health outcomes.
What happens to blood immune cell numbers during
short term stress, as some of those events mentioned above, jumping out of an airplane,
surgery, and medical procedures? T cells increase just before the surgery
begins, decreases during surgery, and everything returns to baseline after
surgery. After psychological stressors,
things return to baseline 3-4 hours after.
Immune cells are body’s soldiers, when a stress
response begins, 1-3 minutes they leave the spleen and enter the blood vessels,
resulting in increased lymphocytes and monocytes that enter skin to potential
battlefields—they go everywhere (In case a lion bites you!—you know,
harkening back to mother natures intended reason for stress: to save your
life!) The immune cells are also better able to defend you. But this also means they go to sites of
ongoing inflammation, like cardiovascular lesions, which may be a reason
What are the factors the distinguish patients who show high vs. low immune cell redistribution during surgery stress: 1. level of chronic stress leading up to surgery. 2. Gender. Women are less able to show adaptive stress and recovery is not as good.
Effects of short-term stress: Mice exposed to
UV have lower tumor burden than mice not exposed to stress, especially during
the early phases of tumor development, but the effects don’t last forever. If
the tumor is already on board, and you pulse the system with stress, you can
regress the tumors, until the late stages of tumor.
It’s good for babies to get poked and stressed when injected for immunizations because it stimulates the immune response. In many clinic sites, we want to HARNESSendogenous immune-enhancing mechanismsto augment protective immunity. In patients with inflammatory or autoimmune disease, we need to turn OFF endogenous immunology enhancement to prevent exacerbation of pathological immune reactions. This is one path that stress could exasperate unwanted immune responses.
Chronic stress reduces protective immunity,
disrupts day-night biological rhythms & sleep, accelerates aging, and accelerates
telomere shortening in response to life stress.
In my words: it turns the immune system from protector to killer
Sources of stress (just in case you were
wondering): job insecurity, high cost of
living, economic uncertainty, relationship conflicts, loneliness, manipulation,
Yoda said: Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads
to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. The Dalai Lama
basically repeated this message. Chronic stress can drive harmful, feed-forward
cycles. What can we do about harmful stress?
How do we break that cycle? By optimizing the stress spectrum. This means minimize or eliminate bad stress. Maximize low or no stress times and events, optimize good stress and shut down the cycle as soon as possible. To stay on the good side of stress, there are things to focus on. Have a good mix of all of the following: LIFESTYLE: sleep, exercise, nutrition. PSYCHO-SOCIAL: coping, social support, authenticity, gratitude, compassion. ACTIVITIES: meditation, yoga, mindfulness, natures, walks, dance, music, art, gardening, fishing, breathing. The activities affect the parasympathetic system by strengthening the calming response, regulating circadian rhythms, biological aging can be slowed down, and the probability dis-regulated responses are decreased.
After his formal presentation, Geisel MED students, and TDI’s MPH and Eichler Fellows students stayed behind for the opportunity to delve deeper and ask Dr. Dhabhar questions over dinner.
We launched our 2019 Eric Eichler ’57 Foundations in Medicine and Humanities Seminar Series with guest speakers Dr. Harold Roth and a current Brown Medical Student, Chloe Zimmerman, a current Brown Medical Student,
both hosted by Professor Sienna Craig of the Anthropology department.
Dr. Harold Roth is the Director of Contemplative Studies at Brown University and leads students in meditation activities in the “Med Lab”. His academic path has taken him from pre-medical studies, to psychology, to Chinese philosophy. Both Chloe and Professor Craig have been students of Dr. Roth and have carried their experiences in contemplative studies onward in their own careers.
In this session, Dr. Roth led the Eichler Fellows in a guided meditation that explored the four dimensions of our bodies: depth, width, height, and time. He encouraged fellows to “stop, drop, and return” if incessant thoughts or stressors invaded the contemplative space. Following the meditation session, Dr. Roth opened the space up for discussion. Fellows shared what went well for them and what challenges they encountered in this practice. Additionally, important topics arose such as:
How are we to think of meditation removed from its origins in religion? And how are we to maintain this practice in stressful and fast-paced atmospheres, like in the medical field?
Dr. Roth and Chloe shared their insights regarding meditation practice and how, like a muscle, with increased use comes an increased sense of ease. Mindfulness can be practiced in the guided form or as simple as noting every time you touch a doorknob to check-in with your body. Following this session, participants walked away feeling refreshed and ready to share this practice with their own communities.
On July 7, 2019, students from all across North American arrived in Hanover to check in for the exciting week ahead.
On the last day, participants participated in a Moth Minute, where they shared a few thoughts about how the week had changed them, their perspectives, or things they took away from their experience.
While they spoke, Eisner award-winning comic artist, writer, publisher, illustrator Ricardo “Liniers” Siri drew each of them.
Jazz, vampires, and tackling rugby dummies are not traditionally part of undergraduate health care studies. But the aspiring health care leaders who attended the Dartmouth Health Care Foundations Summer Institute are not interested in traditional approaches. Over the course of an intensive week, faculty and clinical experts guided students through a week of exploring how the humanities can offer new perspectives and strategies for improving patient care and creating a generation of resilient and compassionate health care professionals.
“To achieve real transformation in health care, our future leaders are going to have to be able to think holistically about science and the humanities. We designed Foundations to support students to think critically and creatively about health care,” says Director of Professional Education Manish K. Mishra, MD, MPH.
Day 1 Topics- Interdisciplinary Approaches to Health Care; Principles of Addiction; Lived Experiences of Addiction
Co-Directors Manish Mishra and Elizabeth Carpenter-Song, PhD, kicked off the week with an interactive exercise in which students worked collaboratively to describe “healthcare” in one word. Their diverse answers laid a strong foundation for the themes discussed during the remainder of the week.
Later in the morning, Alex Magleby ‘00, former Dartmouth rugby captain and head coach of the USA Olympic Rugby team, used a tackling exercise to illustrate important lessons for future health care professionals.
Magleby discussed how team dynamics on the rugby field can provide important lessons for students and health care professionals about giving and receiving feedback, productive responses to setbacks, and learning to support others.
The day ended powerfully with a patient’s own story of heroin addiction, as students explored the physiological processes and lived experiences of addiction.
Day 2 Topics- Faith and Care in Harlem; What is an Opiate? 99 Faces and changing the culture of mental illness; Managing Addiction in the Emergency Room
On the second day of the intensive, Vaughn Booker, PhD, Assistant Professor of Religion and African and African American Studies led a session on the work of jazz legend Mary Lou Williams who created the Bel Canto Foundation to help musicians suffering from substance abuse return to performing.
Booker’s scholarship illuminates how cultural creativity can be an important component of practices of care, comfort, and healing for marginalized communities.
The day continued at Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center with emergency department physician, Matthew Babineau’s unflinching insights into the lived realities of providing emergency care to patients with opioid addiction.
Then Marianne Barthel, Director of the Dartmouth-Hitchcock Arts Program, led participants through the 99 Faces Project designed to reduce the stigma of mental illness.
Finally, John T. Broderick, Jr., JD, Dartmouth-Hitchcock Senior Director of External Affairs and Former Chief Justice of the NH Supreme Court shared his family’s journey of understanding mental health and learning how to deal with the signs of emotional suffering.
“The biggest thing this program has given me is confidence and hope—hope that, despite the complex issues facing health care today, the program offered real examples of how, when people from all fields work together, positive change can occur, both globally and in our local communities, for the most vulnerable populations..” – Adina Hari, student
Day 3 Topics- Re-thinking Opiates in a Global Context; Music and Medicine; Culture of Biomedicine and Marginalized Populations; Medical School and MPH Admissions Panel
Students connected via Skype with Smriti Rana, the program director for Pallium India, and M.R. Rajagopal, MD, widely considered to be the ‘father’ of palliative care in India, to discuss how Pallium is working to improve access to pain-relieving medicines in India. Rajagopal challenged students to attend to the “global burden of suffering” in their future careers in health care.
Later that day, Eisner Award winning Liniers, Argentine cartoonist, spoke with students about what success looks like, which is not always what one anticipates.
Anne Sosin, Director of the Dickey Center talked about the ways that the poor live and die in the U.S. and how to bring global health to these marginalized populations. Medical anthropologist Elizabeth Carpenter-Song, PhD, gave a detailed account of health care experiences among marginalized rural populations to provide insight into how the culture of biomedicine may contribute to the persistence of health disparities.
Day 3 ended with a lively panel discussion led by Aileen Panitz, Director of Admissions at the Geisel School of Medicine, and Courtney Theroux, Director of Admissions at the Dartmouth Institute for Health Policy and Clinical Practice.
“We heard from so many brilliant speakers that hailed from all sorts of backgrounds ranging from healthcare to art, writing and music. These varied viewpoints allowed for a better picture to be painted of what healthcare is and how it can be included in so many different ways.” —Lucas Blackmore, Student
Day 4 Topics- Introduction to Motivational Interviewing; Mindfulness; Learning about Addiction by Studying the history of the Vampire; Improvisational teamwork
Caitlin Barthelmes, Director of the Student Wellness Center at Dartmouth, introduced students to Motivational Interviewing and methods for maintaining mindfulness throughout the day. Students practiced mindfulness through exploration of the surrounding woods and hills.
That afternoon, Museum Education Consultant, Hood Museum of Art, Dartmouth College, and Neely H. McNulty, Hood Foundation Associate Curator of Education, used museum art to teach participants to look beyond the surface and to think about what is behind what we see.
Mary Flanagan, PhD, the Sherman Fairchild Distinguished Professor in Digital Humanities at Dartmouth, talked about how the image of the vampire —a historically marginalized creature that behaves in conflicted ways, —provides a metaphor for studying addiction. The discussion focused on how critical reading and character development can help health care professionals to respond compassionately to those who are suffering.
The 4th day ended with Adjunct Assistant Professor Donald Glasgo, and Director, Barbary Coast Jazz Ensemble, Emeritus and members of the Rusty Berrings Brass Band talked about improvisational teamwork. Their musical foray culminated in a kazoo performance including the students.
Day 5 Topics- Health care is “Broken”; Disrupting Education in Order to Create Patient-Centered Community Services and Social Capital
The last day built on the core themes of the week to identify ways in which contemporary global health care is “broken” and to develop strategies for addressing urgent challenges.
Students connected via Skype with Dr. Agnes Binagwaho, MD, PhD, former Minister of Health of Rwanda and the vice chancellor for the University of Global Health Equity in Kigali, Rwanda. Binagwaho invited students to model their advocacy on her renowned work creating patient-centered services through community engagement and participation.
The lesson of the importance of providing care that meets the needs of communities was then extended by Professor Glyn Elwyn, MD, PhD, who discussed patient preferences as a guide for health care. Elwyn presented the approach of Shared Decision Making, giving students a specific framework and method for placing patient preferences at the center of care.
In the afternoon, students shared what they aspire to carry forward with them from the week in the format of a “moth minute.” Certificates were given to participants in a short ceremony accented by the impromptu accompaniment of kazoos from fellow classmates.
Certificates were given to participants in a short ceremony accented by the impromptu accompaniment of kazoos from fellow classmates.
“The greatest part about this program was meeting so many like-minded students from around the country with so many great ideas. They offered new perspectives into the inequities built into the healthcare system that gave me hope for its future. I was surrounded by brilliant people hoping to use their career in medicine to make changes, which was empowering.”—Jasmine Myftija, student
Tonight, Brian Barthelmes, former New England Patriots
Center and James B. Ames, Orthopedic and Sports
medicine surgeon visited us in Dartmouth Hall. In the spirit of the upcoming
Superbowl, the night kicked off (Punt intended) with pizza and wings from
Ziggy’s. Dr. Manish Mishra introduced himself and co-director Dr. Elizabeth
Carpenter-Song. He opened the seminar with a brief overview of the purpose of
the seminars which is to create a new career approach for people who want to go
into healthcare—research, clinical care, or policy. Mixing humanities and health care is not new, but our approach is new. Our goal
is to help people interested in health to develop their values in that work and
be courageous in it. Particularly before you get into a health care space so
you don’t end up adopting other people’s values, which may not map to your own intrinsic values. Supporting that is
achieved by creating a community, by open dialog, and having monthly seminars
where we model folks involved in the health care and those involved in other
things to show how, regardless of what you are doing, your principles and values
are being developed now before you enter the workforce.
Dr. Mishra asked us to consider a framework: understanding
arts and humanities is critical to being in this difficult terrain. Arts and
humanities teach you important things that go well beyond the fact and teach
you how to navigate those facts. Hold on
to what you are interested in and use that as your
springboard to get a better sense of self. “Know thyself “(Socrates).
Brian Barthelmes is a
guitarist, artist, illustrator, and tattoo artist. Dr. Jamie Ames is an Orthopedic
surgeon who dabbled in education. Brian grew up in rural Ohio, in Amish
country. He didn’t like football but got into it because that’s what his dad
did. His mother was a swimmer; dad was a coach, so sports is what you did. In
college, life feels out of control between school and sports, so he decided to
learn the banjo. School, football, and parents had control of his body and his
time, but they didn’t have control of his playing banjo. At the end of college,
he didn’t know what he wanted to do but
knew he didn’t want to go back to Ohio. He went on to talk about the intensity
of being a professional football player including the time that was spent away from family, the mental intensity of the
game, the demands of practices, and the toll on his body. Music and art are
safe places for him mentally, it kept him balanced and aided in his success.
Dr. Ames went to Ivy league schools, spent 11 years in
pre-professional training but spent a year post-college in Colorado
experiencing life differently as a teacher.
He took the lessons he learned there with him and learned to look at his
work differently. His goals as then,
continue to change constantly. You must
check your values and say yes to those things that speak to you to be able to
do the job well. He is constantly making
decisions what he wants to do. If you
say yes to everything or aren’t open to change, to follow what inspires you,
you will burn out quickly.
Brain said that the stress eats away at your ability to
focus. If you don’t know yourself, then you don’t know how to prevent it.
Neither of these guys could have gotten into this
professional space without holding on to what was important to them.
ECS: what are strategies that you used to reframe to find
joy in that struggle? Brian: always
checking what my motivation was. Protecting his friends became his motivation
for a while. Jamie: coming back to a place where I had trained, suddenly all
eyes on you. Expectations are high.
Being able to fall back on friends from other walks of life who could
care less about my struggles was hugely helpful. Reach outside of it and reach
other folks. You have to create opportunities outside of these spaces for
MKM: how do you protect yourself against conflicting values
that others wish to expose you to? Jamie: you know that everyone struggles, no
one comes out unscathed. Brian: people
come from every walk in life, some are overconfident, know yourself and your
motivation, so you don’t get lost in that
Brian: when I stopped playing football, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I had to take a giant leap of faith, and I’m really glad that I took that chance